Scammed on CalGuns

[treelogger]

There was a guy in the old Calguns days that pulled off this famous group buy scam.

Before the "crate full of Mosins" scam, there was the "OLL group buy scam". Must have been late 2005 or early 2006. A guy (name shall not be mentioned, but their current name is Lady Benjamin Cannon) bought a large number of stripped OLL lowers, claiming to resell them at no profit (nonsense). He deposited them at a local FFL, who didn't have enough gun safe space to actually store them. Since at that time the CA DoJ hated OLLs, an audit of the FFL happened that day (not a coincidence), and confiscated all these "guns" that were being improperly stored. Oops, but to be expected if you are dealing with scammers.

The real problem was that the guy claimed to be employing many many lawyers to get them back from the DoJ BoF, but in reality was doing absolutely nothing. Probably because he had no money and was flat out broke (his AmEx card was overdrawn by about $50K). It took a long time (half a year or so) until a generous and competent person funded lawyers, poked the DoJ a little bit, and the lowers re-appeared. The rest is history.

 

[ikeo1]

Security is always in layers. There’s no single prevention. There’s always a threat vector. We can try to provide guidance for best practices but people will always try to run a scam.

The best we can do is be diligent. I originally wanted to lock down logins here to social logins because they have better security protocols than people do with their passwords. I’m not a fan of passwords without 2FA, non-SMS. The community didn’t want it but it is available for people for more secure logins via passwordless logins.

Once I have a draft of a guide, I’ll run it by this thread for everyone to review.

 

[DDM4556]

FWIW, lots of red flags in the listing. Throwing in $200 worth of rounds with a $350 gun... Holster included too.

The deposit is not a red flag to me IF the purchaser is new and has no established history or feedback. I would also require a deposit in that case - but I have plenty of feedback on Calguns to substantiate my request.

Sorry that happened OP. The 2A community members should always look out for each other. Most do, but there's always the few...

 

[Parley27]

FWIW, lots of red flags in the listing. Throwing in $200 worth of rounds with a $350 gun... Holster included too.

The deposit is not a red flag to me IF the purchaser is new and has no established history or feedback. I would also require a deposit in that case - but I have plenty of feedback on Calguns to substantiate my request.

Sorry that happened OP. The 2A community members should always look out for each other. Most do, but there's always the few...

I know I should been a little bit more thorough and careful when I did the transaction. I seen he had a couple a reviews and I had just completed my 3rd PPT on CG so I was like okay I’m 3/3 then bam, scummed outta $150 when I should’ve know better.

 

[DDM4556]

Security is always in layers. There’s no single prevention. There’s always a threat vector. We can try to provide guidance for best practices but people will always try to run a scam.

The best we can do is be diligent. I originally wanted to lock down logins here to social logins because they have better security protocols than people do with their passwords. I’m not a fan of passwords without 2FA, non-SMS. The community didn’t want it but it is available for people for more secure logins via passwordless logins.

Once I have a draft of a guide, I’ll run it by this thread for everyone to review.

Makes perfect sense, but I'm glad you didn't. Some of us avoid social media and would not want that preventing us from joining forums like this one.

 

[patbateman]

I'm a dinosaur. Things were handled differently back when my kind roamed the Earth. In my walnut-sized brain, things were better back then, and I'm not going to change.

After establishing contact with someone via email/forums/etc., we talk on the phone. I know their full name. If their area code doesn't match their location, I need to know why. If someone can't complete a deal by voice and has an alias, then maybe we can't do business.

Once we work out the details, if I'm the seller, they come to me. I'm not a delivery boy. If they can't come and get it, maybe we can't do business.

If I'm the buyer, I'll pick the item up from the seller's location. I don't meet people in parking lots, I don't meet people on the side of the road. If the seller doesn't have a permanent location, then they're no better than a hobo. I don't deal with hobos.

I don't use Venmo, Zelle, Bitcoin, Facebook Bucks, or whatever other silly games the youngsters now play. If someone doesn't have the cash in their pocket, we have nothing to discuss.

Whether I'm the buyer or seller, I cyberstalk the other guy. I look them up on Facebook, Google, and I check the Street View of their location. If something is off, then maybe we can't do business.

Agree with everything except a buyer insisting they meet at my house, wtf. Hard pass and that's when the red flag in my mind goes up that a person refuses to meet at a Starbucks and goes "naw dude, lemme come to your house, thats the only I will buy this Eotech off you".

 

[SoCalRayJr]

I think this was doomed from the beginning.
If I am buying a firearm from an forum user, we need to meet in person to do the transfer..there for there is no need for a deposit I will give you all the money when we meet. If the seller flakes when you are to meetup, then you are only out a little time and some gas. This is how I have always done business with other forum members and it has worked out just fine. Anyone who does not agree to that is more than likely a SCAM!

 

[Parley27]

I think this was doomed from the beginning.
If I am buying a firearm from an forum user, we need to meet in person to do the transfer..there for there is no need for a deposit I will give you all the money when we meet. If the seller flakes when you are to meetup, then you are only out a little time and some gas. This is how I have always done business with other forum members and it has worked out just fine. Anyone who does not agree to that is more than likely a SCAM!

Bro I know. That’s my fault for being too forthcoming. I was 3/3 on CG doing FTF transactions. So I was like okay, this forum seems legit and I seen he had good reviews so I took a chance which burnt me at the end. Lesson learned for sure.

 

[DB>)>]

It's quite possible that the listing was legit, but the most common "game" was for the scammer to look for a "buyer" posting in response to the listing, then injecting themselve in a "man in the middle" type attack, sending the now "mark" a message to set the "con".

I posted a couple times that the practice of posting a message in response to a listing should be avoided, and all contact should have been through PM or some sort of direct email - thus avoiding the impersonators who want deposits.... and don't have photos other than what they scraped off the internet... and don't actually have hwhat you want, but know if the deal's good enough, SOMEONE will "bite"

Best practices would start with NO posting publically to respond to a listing, ONLY "controlled" contact via PM or email connected to the user account(s).

There should ALWAYS be communication by voice or text (yeah, I used to hate texting, but it's actually pretty "safe" and may help you spot the typical ESL scammer....)

If someone asks for a "deposit", be VERY suspicious and ONLY use a method with recourse should something not work out (be aware that certain entities providing transaction capabilities are NOT "firearm freindly"). This means no "friends and family" type things where it's expected you know who you sent money and can go punch 'em in the face if they scam you, unlike some rando nut job you ran across on the Internet!

Firearms should be transferred consistent with all applicable laws - PPT FTF at an FFL, or FFL to FFL transfer where applicable. Other stuff should be sent via a trackable method, so both parties can see where the package is.

 

[Parley27]

Same persons is on calguns trying to scam again with the same gun and pics

Like New XD40 & 380 Rounds Of Ammo - Calguns.net

Springfield XD40 40 S&W Menifee $350 with 380 rounds included No shipping Has maybe 50 rounds through it and sitting in my safe. Will also toss in 380 rounds which is about $200 retail or more. Also have a safari land holster to go with the package as well.

www.calguns.net

 

[DDM4556]

Same persons is on calguns trying to scam again with the same gun and pics

Like New XD40 & 380 Rounds Of Ammo - Calguns.net

Springfield XD40 40 S&W Menifee $350 with 380 rounds included No shipping Has maybe 50 rounds through it and sitting in my safe. Will also toss in 380 rounds which is about $200 retail or more. Also have a safari land holster to go with the package as well.

www.calguns.net

Interesting. He has an early join date. Since there's no feedback anymore, i'm tempted to mess with him a little.

 

[FriedChickies]

When I posted on CalGuns stating I was in the market for many HK USP models, I received countless scam messages. They were just pouring in... but these scams were somewhat easy to distinguish and filter from the real ones, and thank god I made it out unscathed. Actually, some really good Bay Area peeps messaged me themselves after seeing my WTB posts and gave me some rock-solid deals on many of the HK handguns I own now (which I'm very thankful of).

Hella scammers in this community, gotta be on high-alert alot of the times. If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is (except for the WTS Sig M18 post two weeks ago haha).