Feedback Price Rules/Ideas for Classified Sales

[Vipernity]

I'd like to talk about a topic we all experienced on Calguns and that is price gouging. Now technically it's not really gouging since we're not talking about some vital resource like food or water during a national emergency. It's just a gun. You don't have to buy it. That was basically Calgun's philosophy. But it does cost money to operate this site and running ads with egregious pricing wastes time and valuable bandwidth.

Calguns had a rule about no thread crapping where price policing and snarky remarks on a sales thread were frowned upon. Some Facebook groups will even ban you permanently on the first infraction. I'm on Facebook groups where part of the rules you agree to before joining is that your sales price must be reasonable or the entire ad will be taken down. Now we do have a handgun roster where off-roster guns command a premium. But what is a reasonable premium? I think most will agree that triple is out of line. Even double is really pushing it. A very rare limited volume gun difficult to get even in free states might command a bit more.

All comments and suggestions are welcome.

 

[ikeo1]

I'd like to talk about a topic we all experienced on Calguns and that is price gouging. Now technically it's not really gouging since we're not talking about some vital resource like food or water during a national emergency. It's just a gun. You don't have to buy it. That was basically Calgun's philosophy. But it does cost money to operate this site and running ads with egregious pricing wastes time and valuable bandwidth.

Calguns had a rule about no thread crapping where price policing and snarky remarks on a sales thread were frowned upon. Some Facebook groups will even ban you permanently on the first infraction. I'm on Facebook groups where part of the rules you agree to before joining is that your sales price must be reasonable or the entire ad will be taken down. Now we do have a handgun roster where off-roster guns command a premium. But what is a reasonable premium? I think most will agree that triple is out of line. Even double is really pushing it. A very rare limited volume gun difficult to get even in free states might command a bit more.

All comments and suggestions are welcome.

What is it you’re suggesting? That we moderate price? There’s too many listings for that kind of thing. We all know FB has to be very careful or the group itself will get banned. That’s why these kinds of boards are for the community.

We also do not allow price discussion. We do allow emoticons. That’s the compromise for the community to show their displeasure towards a price. It keeps it less personal and signals to the buyer. If they ignore it and they want the piece, let them. Some people will pay a higher price out of convenience because they can.

 

[DDM4556]

You can't control an asking price. Who's to determine what's reasonable. Personally I feel the Calguns marketplace was largely a joke, where people simply exposed their greed and lack of any shred of dignity. But there were the few who made it worthwhile. The marketplace here will likely emulate the other.

My only request would be requiring people actually put thought into a listing. I'd love to see a picture requirement, but I suppose just basic fields like make, model, location, condition would be essential.

FWIW, I'd also love to see sold guns properly removed from titles of listings. If its gone, make it gone.

 

[ikeo1]

My only request would be requiring people actually put thought into a listing. I'd love to see a picture requirement, but I suppose just basic fields like make, model, location, condition would be essential.

One picture is required. It wasn’t for the first week but has been since then. Also there is a bit of a requirement to fill in the details at least with title and location. It isn’t required but you can ask a question via a button.

I'd also love to see sold guns properly removed from titles of listings. If its gone, make it gone.

This exists. Once it’s marked sold, it’s removed from the main listing and search. You can manually choose sold to see what’s been sold. This is the record book for the built-in feedback system. They are integrated.


The goal here is to be efficient and not waste a lot of time. If you’re here to window shop, you can do that but if you want something, the search function and filters are there to narrow down fast. The images and location also help with visual scanning.

I would hope people would check out our review system so people could review their gear too, for a full eco-system. I’m working on that now.

 

[ikeo1]

As an example, you cannot discuss price but you can use an emoticon.

 

[Vipernity]

That’s why these kinds of boards are for the community.

On other "community oriented" forums I belong to, there is a general spirit among the members to look out for one another and be more reasonable on sales prices than you normally would be on general marketplaces like eBay. To basically treat each other like a tight knit group. All it would take on the part of the Mods such as yourself is to instill that spirit on to the forums.

 

[ikeo1]

On other "community oriented" forums I belong to, there is a general spirit among the members to look out for one another and be more reasonable on sales prices than you normally would be on general marketplaces like eBay. To basically treat each other like a tight knit group. All it would take on the part of the Mods such as yourself is to instill that spirit on to the forums.

I think you’ll find this place is like an internet range. If anything there’s tons of deals here.

Also, the emoticons is the compromise to let others know without engaging in a circular argument and leaving it up to the buyer. I don’t know the value of everything, which is why I would rely on the community to self police.

I hope to meet some of y'all at ranges up and down CA. This place should be like squads in a match, roam around, meet people who enjoy the sport in whatever discipline you practice

 

[ikeo1]

To basically treat each other like a tight knit group.

Community feedback means a lot to this site, your opinions are welcome. We're 7 weeks old and ~1900 entirely new people and been a learning experience. So things are very fluid right now. You'll see things change frequently here.

One last note, we do encourage right pricing to move things quick. As we grow, its already planned to push free tier bumping to 3/5/7 days depending on # of listings. If people want more frequent bumping they'll have to subscribe, which should lower the number and spread listings. Concept is to put the item at the back of the line older it gets to encourage lowering the price or expiring after 90 days and relisting.

 

[Call_me_Tom]

There should be a minimum post count to buy, sell, and DM members. That would help reduce scammers, as most scammers don’t have the patience to post 50 “meaningful” posts before they enact their scam. Meaningful would be at the moderators discretion.

Sellers should also be required to post a lined sheet of paper with a sharpie hand written showing their screen name, date and price in the first photo with the item of their listing in the photo, this is also to reduce scammers.

 

[D.A.V.I.D.]

As always said on Calguns don't buy it, there are people that will pay double and they probably do almost every day. I'm not LEO and I understand if it's a gun that I want I'm most likely going to have to pay a premium. If I get a gun and then end up not liking it I'm also going to sell it at a premium. You say it's wasting time and bandwidth but I would bet more sales on Calguns were from off roster guns than on roster, only place to look for them pretty much. If I wanted one I wasn't calling local shops to see if they have one on consignment.

 

[Gat Man]

I don’t think there is any need to regulate asking prices. If an item is perceived as being priced high then the item either won’t sell or the seller will have to wait for the right buyer that is willing to pay up. If you don’t like the price then move along or make an offer.

I also don’t think there should be a minimum post requirement to buy or sell. If that’s implemented the site will likely get a bunch of garage posts from members just trying to get their post count up. Calguns had several members that almost exclusively posted items for sale in the marketplace and didn’t engage in the forums.

 

[treelogger]

I don't think asking moderators or the community to regulate prices or "name and shame price gouging" is reasonable. The reason for that is that the California economy is so weird, with a huge spread in wealth and disposable income. Combine that with trading interesting guns being a hobby, where the economics of pricing is ill defined.

What do I mean by that? In the Bay Area, there are lots of people who are not wealthy, are on a fixed income (retirees dealing without our insane cost of living, where a yoghurt at the grocery store can put you down a few $), or are simply down on their (employment) luck. There are also software engineers and marketing managers pulling in high 6 digit salaries. If you go into a building at one of the big computer companies in Silicon Valley, you see people making $40K (like the receptionist or cafeteria worker) right next to people making $400K. Say both want a gun: One will search to get the great deal for $400 (a beat up Glock that looks like it was run over by a truck, because it has, and had 50K rounds through it, yet still functions well). The other is super happy to spend $4000 for that off-roster collectible like a 2011, or a 5th generation Glock. So if someone posts a gun at an unreasonably low price, they will make a poor person happy, and I'm all for that. If they post a gun at an unreasonably high price, they will make a rich person happy, and I'm also in favor of that. So let them all be.

 

[Vipernity]

I agree with Gat Man in that there should not be a minimum post count. First of all most of us are new to an already new forum and wont have high post counts. Second, as firearm transactions are F2F, take place in a FFL, and require lots of paperwork, scammers would do better elsewhere. Now things involving shipping where say it's an accessory or unregulated part and the buyer is in San Diego and the seller in Sacramento I suppose scamming is a little more likely. Might want to double check feedback/post count or just insist on PP G&S.

I had been on a knife forum for 3 years, had a decent meaningful post count and had contributed a few things. Yet on my first sale, even though it was only a $200 knife, lots of guys were giving me a hard time about my lack of feedback. Once I agreed to do PP G&S all was good. Now that I'm established I can insist on PP F&F and I literally have guys sending me funds no questions asked.

 

[ikeo1]

I agree with Gat Man in that there should not be a minimum post count. First of all most of us are new to an already new forum and wont have high post counts. Second, as firearm transactions are F2F, take place in a FFL, and require lots of paperwork, scammers would do better elsewhere. Now things involving shipping where say it's an accessory or unregulated part and the buyer is in San Diego and the seller in Sacramento I suppose scamming is a little more likely. Might want to double check feedback/post count or just insist on PP G&S.

I had been on a knife forum for 3 years, had a decent meaningful post count and had contributed a few things. Yet on my first sale, even though it was only a $200 knife, lots of guys were giving me a hard time about my lack of feedback. Once I agreed to do PP G&S all was good. Now that I'm established I can insist on PP F&F and I literally have guys sending me funds no questions asked.

Being a new forum, we don’t have minimum post counts. Yes, since a lot of tx’s are in person, I think scamming should be kept to a minimum for exactly the reasons you mention. That said, no deposits, feel free to walk away from deals.

We will be coming up with a best practices.
We have a Calguns Verification which is basically account age across two sites + credit card verification
If an item is shippable, we suggest PP G&S for everyone new until we become more established.
Anything questionable should be Reported.

What @treelogger mentioned was why we don’t have price moderation. Some people will pay the premium, not because they’re stupid, but because they can and don’t mind. We don’t allow price deletion to allow searches for sold items for price discovery. So there are several compromises.

I think for rules, we’re pretty good with best practices.

The question I have for all of you, is what do you think is the best way to attract more people to listing and using the platform? I’m honestly surprised people are adapting to CGN marketplace rather than double list and have an online inventory of stuff they’re selling WITH a fully integrated feedback system, working images, and regional search.